And this is a question that opens up a can of wormsMost people would state that strictly speaking there is no such thing as a black great Pyr. Like many breeds, pyrs have roots which can be traced back many thousands of years to an area of the world which we now know as Turkey. Taking a slightly different tack with their colors, the Kennel Club the UKs equivalent of the AKC, explicitly states that any patches of black on great pyrs are highly undesirable. I came across this forum while looking for info on our (pictured) black Great Pyrenees. These breeds are the ones most commonly found on properties where livestock guardians may also be, and are also known to produce the types of markings often displayed on so-called black marked 'Pyreneans'.. That was in the late seventeenth century by Loius XIV. Just before I charge into such a heated debate, I want to give you some basic stats and qualities of this wonderful breed. have owned four Golden Retrievers in the past 15 years. Badger isnt black- it refers to different shades of grey stripes that appear around a pyrs head. Breed standards are created by the American Kennel Club. This website is a chance to share my experience and spread the love of these great animals. Yeah if shes from a breeder and both tests are confirming Great Pyrenees then she must be, but if youre on Facebook Id definitely recommend posting in those groups to get some insight on her color. Which is central to the argument put forward by people who believe that black great pyrs do exist, Because they did exist before the American Kennel Club and the Kennel Club have chosen to restrict the allowable colours to exclude black pyrs- or indeed any level of colouring that comes close. Pyreneans, however, can be either all white or white with patches of badger (which the French call blaireau), wolf grey, paler shades of lemon, orange (traditionally called arrouye) or tan. Wow she really does look like a Tibetan Mastiff and based on looks Id say thats what she is. So if you want a great Pyrenee to show or you want a pyr to register with the AKC and to breed from then your desire and search for a black great Pyrenee needs to end here. In this first section I want to quickly highlight some basic traits. You should email the companies and ask about your results. Pyrs are bred for a very specific role as livestock guarding dog. But hopefully I have provided you with some headlines that you can use as a starting point. Many people mistakenly think that a great Pyrenees, in order to be purebred, needs to be solid white without a hint of any other colour. Photo above: an example of a Pyrenean cross showing black patches and some ticking on the legs, What about in Australia?It is important to note that Pyrenean Mountain Dogsin Australia could not and have not been crossed with a Pyrenean Mastiff. While there have been asmall number ofPyrenean Mastiffs in Australia, none of the dogs imported to or bred in this country have carried the gene for black markings and none have ever been crossed with Pyreneans as the lines have been strictly controlled. In addition, no breeder of registered Pyreneansin Australia has EVER imported or bred a dog with black patches (andthe law of averagestells us that if the colour existed in the breed here, they should have produced at least one at some point). This is information that we can all agree on and will help those of you who are less familiar with these dogs to create a detailed image of a pyr in your mind- which will help you later on as we start sailing in some choppy waters. In order to register with the AKC and to be able to enter dogs into AKC sponsored shows (which in the US are the most prestigious dog shows) your dog must conform to the breed standard. One such person puts forward this argument very strongly, and calls great pyrs with black on them the French breed standard. In the next section I want to look at alternatives to black great Pyrs. But they are quick to protect their territory and their flock or human family. The breed standard is a set of characteristics that a dog must have in order to be registered with the AKC- the American Kennel Club. Others would say, hang on a minute, of course black great Pyrs exist. But in their case, they are majestic in the truest sense of the world because at one time they were given the honour of being described as the royal dog of France. Ill check it out. if(typeof ez_ad_units != 'undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'qualitydogresources_com-large-mobile-banner-2','ezslot_13',143,'0','0'])};if(typeof __ez_fad_position != 'undefined'){__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-qualitydogresources_com-large-mobile-banner-2-0')};The breed standard or a set of desirable qualities that a dog breed must have, allows up to one third of a great Pyrenees coat to be a color other than white. Essentially this is right as a Pyrenean must always be principally a white dog. Currently I own two "Goldies"- a five year old and a seven month old. Oh that it was as simple as finding a big black dog which is recognised by the AKC but it isnt. They are highly sought-after. When many people think of Pyrenean Mountain Dogs, they think of a white dog. I mean getting your hands on a puppy of this breed could be a real challenge. And without going into a long and boring discussion looking at genetics there can only be two basic differences between them. If so, we can discuss the colour of their coat.if(typeof ez_ad_units != 'undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[300,250],'qualitydogresources_com-leader-1','ezslot_12',127,'0','0'])};if(typeof __ez_fad_position != 'undefined'){__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-qualitydogresources_com-leader-1-0')}; I want to start by looking at what the American Kennel Club has to say about it. But both companies said they test for that breed and we got her as a reject from a Great Pyr breeder. Firstly black pyrs cant be registered with the AKC and secondly they cant be shown at AKC sponsored shows. if(typeof ez_ad_units != 'undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'qualitydogresources_com-leader-3','ezslot_16',129,'0','0'])};if(typeof __ez_fad_position != 'undefined'){__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-qualitydogresources_com-leader-3-0')}; That all depends on how much respect you have for the AKC and its breed standard. JavaScript is disabled. In terms of personality and temperament, both breeds can be described as calm and protective and both make for great livestock guardians. Great Pyrenees were first brought over to the US in the early nineteenth century and they were only recognised by the AKC in 1933. If you want a great big black dog, what are your options? On these mountains these dogs were there to protect sheep from wolves, bears or even livestock rustlers. The height of a fully grown male will be somewhere between 27 to 32 inches- which is about 68 cm to 80 cm in height and they will weigh not less than 100 lbs or 45 kilos. Thank you so much for the FB lead! But Tibetans need less exercise than Pyrs and they are less likely to bark- and I for one love quiet dogs. Weve had her dna tested by 2 companies and they both come back as Great Pyrenees. Five Long Term Effects Of Prednisone In Dogs. And if you want a dog to play that role on your farm or ranch then it leaves you with just one choice- the Tibetian Mastiff. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Why Is My Female Dog Leaking Clear Odourless Fluid? But that doesnt mean that beautiful examples of solid black great pyrs dont exist or have never existed. What DNA companies did you use? Come join the discussion about breeds, training, puppies, food reviews, service animals, and more. Added to that, the coat on Tibetans requires less work as they are far less likely to shed than a Pyr. So what different colours are permissible?if(typeof ez_ad_units != 'undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[300,250],'qualitydogresources_com-large-mobile-banner-1','ezslot_11',128,'0','0'])};if(typeof __ez_fad_position != 'undefined'){__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-qualitydogresources_com-large-mobile-banner-1-0')}; Well, there is quite a range from grey, badger, reddish brown or shades of tan. black patches and/or dark ticking in the white parts of the coat - is from breeds such as the Border Collie or Australian Cattle Dog. Another important quality of the coat is that it is thick around the neck and shoulders rather like a mane. Lets take a look. And in the next section I want to backtrack a little bit and explore some of the history of this wonderful breed. Any animal that is large can very often be labelled as majestic, which is a common description used for pyrs. My name is James and I love dogs. Has anyone ever heard of a black pyr? if(typeof ez_ad_units != 'undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[300,250],'qualitydogresources_com-leader-2','ezslot_15',165,'0','0'])};if(typeof __ez_fad_position != 'undefined'){__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-qualitydogresources_com-leader-2-0')};So there is absolutely no mention of black. We were initially told she was a black lab/pyr mix. The only large black livestock guarding dog which is recognised by the AKC. They are being reintroduced through Canada. A forum community dedicated to all breeds of dog owners and enthusiasts. Delilah- Jack Russell x Rat Terrier; Marshmellow- Netherland Dwarf Rabbit, (Part 2 because I was on my phone and couldn't post a pic). I've never heard of this. And in the next section, I want to take a look at some of these limitations. I mean a quick Google Image search will produce dozens of beautiful photos of black Pyrenees dogs. In creating the table above I suddenly realised how difficult it is to compare these two breeds- or any breeds for that matter. The next section will provide us with some clues. The only place that black markings in 'Pyreneans' could have eventuated from in dogs located in Australia is through crossing (either accidental or otherwise) at some point with another breed that was not a Pyrenean (noting that a bitch may mate and have puppies in the same litter which are the offspring of more than one dog).One of the most likely sources of black markings in Australia - i.e. Which accounts for some of their key qualities which we will discuss in more detail later- their size, athleticism, patience and their thick white coat! These are the people who nonsense any suggestion that there are any such things as black Pyrs. As far as their personalities go, most pyrs should be very relaxed, calm and affectionate. And for many of you it will be important to be able to register a dog with the AKC. Which means, at the end of the day, if you want a dog that will be more of a family dog than a working dog, then your best option might be a Tibetan rather than a black Pyr! And clearly these dogs are for real- they arent Newfoundlands or even Jack Rusells in some sort of fancy dress! But the breed as we know it has a much longer history in France. But how do they compare? if(typeof ez_ad_units != 'undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'qualitydogresources_com-large-leaderboard-2','ezslot_10',160,'0','0'])};if(typeof __ez_fad_position != 'undefined'){__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-qualitydogresources_com-large-leaderboard-2-0')};Have you got a clearer image of a great pyr in your mind now? The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, DAFC6D8B-0002-42C9-B340-A48E321FD3E0_1542465122957.jpg, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Known as Great Pyrenees in the US and Canada, in Europe (including the UK) these dogs are known as Pyrenees Mountain Dogs. What Should I Do If My Dog Ate A Small Piece of Onion? That is so.. weird. Which begs the question, do black pyrs exist at all? For a female- height wise they are about 25 to 29 inches (62cm to 72 cm) and they shouldnt weigh less than 85 lbs or 38.5 kilos. And, as we know, a lot can happen in two hundred years. Another person also makes the point that black great Pyrs that were imported into Canada might have been involved in the creation of Landseers or black and white and white Newfoundlands. To their loving owners and legions of fans, the breed is known affectionately as Pyrs. Now this begs the question: what is the difference between black Pyrs and white pyrs? The Black Pyrenees is from the original French breading. So that seems to be pretty clear doesnt it- there is no such thing as a black great Pyrenees. The photo shows me with our youngest when she was about 7 weeks old! What we can see is that a Pyr is physically taller than a Tibetan Mastiff but because they are about the same weight, the Mastiff is chunkier. But regardless of what they are called in which part of the world, the burning question that you want answered is, can I get a black great Pyrenees? Does Too Much Protein In Dog Food Cause Diarrhea? And for great Pyrenees this means that they cannot be a solid black colour or anything close to that. Indeed, as we will find out later, pyrs were an incredibly popular breed in France in the late seventeenth century. Why would they have a mane?if(typeof ez_ad_units != 'undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[300,250],'qualitydogresources_com-box-4','ezslot_4',126,'0','0'])};if(typeof __ez_fad_position != 'undefined'){__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-qualitydogresources_com-box-4-0')}; if(typeof ez_ad_units != 'undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[300,250],'qualitydogresources_com-banner-1','ezslot_6',159,'0','0'])};if(typeof __ez_fad_position != 'undefined'){__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-qualitydogresources_com-banner-1-0')};It might be to provide better protection for their neck in the event of an attack by a wolf or bear. As their name suggests, these dogs were bred to work in the (Pyrenees) mountains which divide France from Spain. 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